Hello and welcome to Wednesday’s edition of A Slice Of Soap.
Hot on the heels of Mickey and Keith Miller, EastEnders’ Yolande Trueman is also facing the axe. Angela Wynter, the actress that plays her, is reportedly disappointed by the decision to write her out of the show. She says producers told her that after five years in Walford, they had simply run out of storylines for her. I am so not surprised.
The truth is that Yolande is just the latest in a long line of really badly-written EastEnders characters. The only reason she’s lasted so long is because Rudolph Walker is so good as Patrick Trueman – and Yolande’s married to him. So they just let her drift along with not very much to do or, if they gave her anything to do, it was rubbish (remember when Charlie Slater’s humbugs got attached to Yolande’s bum? Yawn). Yolande could drain the life from a party after it’s had the life drained from it. I can understand why the writers couldn’t be bothered to write for her anymore because Yolande fits into the same category as the Millers…deadwood. That’s all she is and it’s time for her to go. I’m so glad that we won’t have to listen to her grating accent much longer.
Yolande first arrived in the Square in 2003, following a holiday romance with Patrick Trueman – the couple subsequently wed. Arguably her most memorably storyline came when she discovered her husband had been cheating on her with Pat Evans (shudder), although she subsequently forgave him.
When I read that Angela believes her character has become a ‘part of the fabric of EastEnders’, and has struck a chord with viewers because she is believable, I had to laugh. Yolande will barely be remembered in a year’s time – ‘member I told you.
On a related note, James Sutton is calling it a day on Hollyoaks. The actor, who plays John Paul McQueen, is moving on to other projects. His last scenes will air in September. He’ll definitely be missed. So who’s next for the soap revolving door? Watch this space…
Official Sites
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EastEnders
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That’s it for now. Join me on Friday for more soap news and gossip. Got a comment about your favourite soap, this blog or anything else? Share it with me.
Ms Bubbles
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MSN TV Blog: A Slice Of Soap 
I can\’t believe how this has spun out of control. And all because some of you – and you know who you are – got the wrong end of the stick. My advice? Take a chill pill and relax. Firstly, dictionary definition of \’grate/grating\’ :
grate (ANNOY) Show phoneticsverb [I] When a noise or behaviour grates, it annoys you:After a while her voice really started to grate on me.It\’s the way she\’s always talking about herself – it just grates on me. Do you see any reference to race anywhere in that definition Leah? Abiii? Black MAN ( aka original man)? Sandra? Jeska? Why were you all so quick to jump on the race bandwagon? Isn\’t it possible that the woman\’s accent could \’grate\’ on me simply because it \’grates\’ on me? For the record, I can\’t stand Janice Battersby\’s accent either. She really grates on me too.Not that it should make a difference, but if you\’d all FIRST done some research before crying \’racist\’ and \’racism\’ and demanding that I apologise etc and actually looked at my picture which is on this blog, you would\’ve seen that I\’m black. However, that is neither here nor there. I wrote a sentence that is strong enough to stand alone – virtually identical to the dictionary definition – and you all jumped to the wrong conclusion and, in some instances, got very personal with other posters. The real point is, that kind of attutude undermines real, genuine instances of racism and that\’s what makes it so sad.
Finally, I\’m going to repost a comment by Nic – one voice of reason here in this particular debate. She (or is it he?) was spot on with regard to every single aspect of what I said. She got the joke with regard to "\’Member I told you" and she knew why I said Yolande\’s voice grated on me. If Nic was able to get it – everyone else should\’ve too. So Nic – take a bow!____ Nic03 July 10:49(http://cid-c844bb0d4a9394c9.spaces.live.com/)Get off your high horse LeahI very much doubt that Angela Wynter (the actress who plays Yolande) speaks exactly like that in real life. She is acting and therefore if others find her accent grating then she isn\’t doing a very good job. Most of the Eastenders\’ actors put on exaggerated cockney accents different to their own and some do it better than others. Not that it should matter but I think that the blogger herself is black. She also says how much she likes Patrick Trueman who is also supposed to be from the Carribean. People are just too quick to play the racism card these days which probably does more harm than good. As for the \’member I told you which was obviously a reference to Alex from BB, this was a joke and I laughed. It was ridiculous how the woman kept saying that phrase and has quickly become used by many people, regardless of race as a silly catchphrase
haha i was going to write a message about how you\’ve been offensive about her accent and ask why you have put \’member i told you\’ but other people have beat me to it 😀 oh dear…
I hope you\’re seeing the funny side of it all now Leila. Thanks for your comment.
Interesting comments, although I do think that Leah is being unnecessarily attacked for defending his/her race by those who think that it is not such a big deal. Feelings run high sometimes because it is a sensitive subject for most black people, and of course it is linked to racism. All too often black actors/actresses/presenters receive complaints from viewers that their \’accent\’ is unintelligible, with the exception of Sir Trevor MacDonald, who claims his perfect vowels are as a result of growing up and listening to the BBC World Service. I doubt if Sir T spoke in his natural tone he would have even got his foot into the door of national broadcasting. This is the whole point – a black person has to train and disguise his or her accent simply to get on in life and become accepted within this country. A white person would never have to do this, and would be welcomed with open arms on or off TV, regardless of a deep Scottish/Irish/Liverpudlian accent.
It seems more acceptable for a white British audience to hear the shrieking, squawking Bianca (Rickaaaaay!!!) than to listen to the much more dulcet and soothing tones of the wonderful Yolanda, simply because they are not used to \’foreign accents\’ even though English people ironically choose the West Indies as their favourite travel hot spot (!). Sorry if I\’m going off track here but Ms Soap Editor, as a black women, you surprise me. I do not know you\’re origin but come on girl, be proud of your heritage, accent and all. I have never heard a Caribbean or African accent described as \’grating\’, this kind of remark is something that you would hear from a non-tolerant English person who would prefer to hear and see a white person on screen talking, even if their dialect does sound awful and incomprehensible to other minorities.
And talking about the black EastEnders characters \’running out of steam\’ – this is nothing new as Scriptwriters do not appear to have integrated, or sought advice from black members of the community so how on earth can they write authentic and convincing storylines for ethnic minorities? How many black actors have had to RIP because writers do not understand or are uninterested in black people\’s way of life/thoughts/feelings and therefore decide to opt for the easy route of writing them out. The Tavernier family, Carmel the Social worker, Darren, her brother, Gus and Jooley etc, are all characters who spring to mind, and did not develop or last. Whereas the character of somebody like Charlie Slater, the taxi driver who amazingly takes no fares yet still survives financially, has no real direction but still appears in the cast, and as for Dot, the nations favourite, she has come and gone for years, and please don\’t let me get started on vile Ian, so-called business man of Walford who has been in the show as long as I\’ve had hot dinners. Why couldn\’t Gus be portrayed as the driven entrepeneur with a family as opposed to a glorified road sweeper.
Black people have been in this country for centuries. High time that we become ACCEPTED and ACKNOWLEDGED for who we are, what we represent and HOW WE SPEAK. Paul and others, if you don\’t like what I\’ve just said then why are YOU here? Black people built the stones and foundations of this country through blood, sweat, tears and the loss of their lives, so technically we can claim that England is ours also, therefore we also have freedom of speech.
I rest my case.
Articles like these are just fuel for fire! The author knows fully well this post is based purely on igorance. RACISM !!!!!!!!!!
rip
African Queen – thank you for your comment. However, I disagree with you – this is NOT a sensitive subject and it is NOT linked to racism and I do not have to like Yolande\’s accent just because she is black and I am black. Her accent grates on me. She grates on me and that\’s that. Did I say that Patrick\’s accent grated on me? No. Did I say that all Caribbean accents grate on me? No. So why bring race into this? It\’s nothing to do with race. If I\’d said that Janice Battersby\’s accent grated on me, which it does, I bet I wouldn\’t have had loads of complaints from white people accusing me of racism. There are some who are probably irritated by her too.
Being proud of my heritage, which I am, doesn\’t mean that I have to like Yolande – that\’s a load of codswallop. It\’s like saying that all white people have to like somebody just because they\’re white or that all Asian people have to like someone just because they\’re Asian. Again, codswallop. I am a discerning adult and I choose the freedom of expression in all its glory – meaning that I am completely free to be irritated by anyone that annoys me. And that includes Yolande Trueman. I appreciate that she has not been written well – I made that point from the very start. However, I still can\’t stand her accent because it sounds so fake. And TygerG2, you\’re also missing the point.
is not only Yolande that needs to go, Rox & Ronnie need to be axed too!!
kerry, I agree. I\’ve been saying for ages now that Ronnie and Roxie need to be given their marching orders. I just can\’t see the point of them…
I remember visiting Esholt when Emerdale was filmed there. Clive was filming a scene the one where he was making a call to his mistress. He was viewing the shoot back . My Boys who was only young at the time asked him for his autograph. Not only did he sign it for them he showed them the scene on the moniter. A true profesional. Kind hearted. Will be saddley missed. His family are in our thoughts.R.I.P.
i am from the same culture as yolande, with the same as you put it \’grating accent\’, i say your comment is pure Racism.
NADA, you will have nada idea what\’s going on unless you\’ve read my comments below. The characterisation of Yolande annoys me because I do not consider it a convincing one – and that includes her accent. Being black myself, I do not see how that can be racist. Throwing the word \’racist\’ around on this subject is getting really tiresome. It has NOTHING to do with race. I\’m really getting fed up of explaining this now.
Lets be fair, She is one hell of a task master, it\’s not before time that she got the boot.
honestly people need to stop being so sensitive. i find her accent \’grating\’, i find her character rather pointless. Nada, i also am from the same culture as yolande and ulike you i dont find this article insulting or in any way. Possibly people need to read the past comments before attacking the article are making such seriouse accusations.
sorry typo *i don\’t find this article insulting or in any way Racist
Thank God the creators, directors, writers of Eastenders are not so narrowminded to want to cast only actors with not so called "gratting accents" as the writer called Yollande Truman\’s accent. The soap is meant to be representative of the communities we live in. In the East end we have people from all walks of life sighting different accents, that\’s THE MULTI-CULTURE SOCIETY WE LIVE IN, yOLLANDE SHALL BE MISSED. Reality check!!
Mo
Why is it, that when there\’s a post on this website pointing out something bad or annoying etc about someone who happens to be black, it turns into being a racist comment? If you said that someone from Liverpool\’s accent annoyed you, it wouldn\’t be classed as racist. If you said someone from Scotland\’s accent annoyed you, it wouldn\’t be classed as racist. The thing is, many people seem to enjoy playing the race card. If a black person (or white) told me my voice was annoying, I wouldn\’t take that as being racist. It seems to me that those leaving comments about this being racist really need to think about it. It probably isn\’t even her real accent, the editor on here obviously didn\’t mean that they dislike the carribbean accent, although even if they did, why would it cause such an effect, when for years people take the micky out of accents. We\’ve all done it, tried to do an impersonation of someone\’s voice, or laughed jokingly at how someone pronounces something, and those who say they haven\’t obviously never went to school, have never watched tv and have probably never worked. It\’s all kidding, it\’s all for fun. I\’m sure your some of your voices would annoy someone!
I think you\’ve probably misunderstood the editors point, because it is clear to me what she meant. You all need to chill a bit. Some of those leaving comments are a lot more racist than the editor. Things are blown out of proportion for no need, and maybe you should save some of your anger for the truly racist people around. I bet some of you can\’t even remember what the blog was about.
Anyway, I can\’t believe James Sutton is leaving hollyoaks!
(no name), all the people who\’ve defamed and slated me seem to have ignored the fact that I mentioned how much I like Rudolph Walker as Patrick Trueman. Now why didn\’t that register with them? Because they\’re too quick to look for the wrong connoations, that\’s why. Part of me wants to let the people who\’ve got the wrong end of the stick make bigger fools of themselves. But the other part of me feels the need to point out why they\’re wrong.
I was a little surprised to read the comment from the writer on Yolande especially as she too is black. Embrassing your culture is not to pick and chose what you like about it because \’your\’ culture includes those who are different and speak differently. You were rude to say just her accent grated on you and not Patricks accent too. I feel this may be because Yolande is female and you are able to relate to here more so than Patrick,and this embarrasses you. I suspect you\’ll tell me I\’ wrong, but like th sy – freedom of speec. Yolnda perceives a character from the Caribbean. Not many people from the UK will be famiiar with the varying accents which come from the Caribbean and Yolanda potrays a good example of a certain caribeean accent, even if it\’s not perfect. You can say her character is dull, and leave it at that. No need for such vile terms at an actress doing the best she can in a prime time soap. If you don\’t like her acting then don\’t watch it. The producers are not sacking her because her accent is not perfect for you, Miss Almighty elecution perfectionist. She is a realist actress in my view. If you want to listen to REAL bad accents and acting, then keepwatchig Hollyoaks and leave this actress alone. No-one should ever blog and say they are happy that someone got sacked. There are not that many black actors time spots, and when they do, as a GROWN black woma yourself, don\’t know then down to make yourself feel better. You should be bigger than that!
Apologies about the many spelling mistakes on my msg below. I am using the new eee computer with sticky keys that don\’t
type properly.
KimKim – I don\’t think I\’ve embarrassed either myself or my culture. I feel very good about myself actually. As far as Ms Wynter is concerned, I\’m sure we\’ll see her go on to bigger and better things. I happen to dislike just about every aspect of the character of Yolande, which is mostly down to what I see as poor characterisation. That\’s my prerogative.
omi god Kimkim! Are you for real? I agree with the blogger because Yolande is a rubbish character and it has nothing to do with race. Sheeeeeesh!
So if that\’s the case why don\’t they revamp her character, like they do for every one else, give her new story lines, i think is detrimental to have a balance of characters from different backgrounds to focus on the reality which it unfolds. The blogger was wrong to comment on the accent which i and many others have grown up with within the household, maybe the blogger would have prefferd a African one as it seems to be those kind of people who despise Jamaicans. The blogger is a puppet at the end of the day for the ignorant minds who is out of touch with the actors role. other wise as a black woman you would not put down one of your own in this manner, instead you should be getting us the viewer to oppose the decision to axe the Actor and give her better roles more suited in order to sustain her presence as black actor in order to pave the way for others.
(no name), let\’s put this in perspective. Angela Wynter has had a good 5-year run on EastEnders. Jack Ellis and Matthew Compton, who play father and son bookies Harry and Dan Mason on Coronation Street, are being axed after less than a year! She\’s had a damn good run – just as my hero Gus did (that\’s irony – I\’m being ironic) and he was just as pointless a character (even though we loved him). The point is, characters are only as good as the writers and actors and somewhere along the lines, it was time for Yolande to go. The character has come to the end of the road, as soap characters sometimes do, and I have no intention of encouraging any viewer to oppose the decision because it\’s the right one. Let\’s hope those useless Mitchell sisters are next.
As for this: "maybe the blogger would have prefferd a African one as it seems to be those kind of people who despise Jamaicans."
Um, my family IS Jamaican. Why am I even dignifying such utterly stupid arguments with a response?
Ms Soap Editor, I beg to differ and feel that you are living in cuckoo land if you cannot see the link to racism. The point I was trying to make was not about preventing freedom of speech as we are living in a democracy, but to alert you to the fact that as we clearly do not have any kind of Spokesperson in the UK, black people should try to support their own, and refrain from making ignorant comments. Nobody has to love their own race, of course not, but it’s bad enough that the outside world are under the impression that that we never defend our own people. Most black people feel proud of their culture and accent (even if it is portrayed in a poor way on screen). IT IS a sensitive topic because we have been mocked for years over the way that we speak. I’m sure you recall the likes of the ‘comedian’ Jim Davidson’s depiction of the fictional ‘Chalkie’, the West Indian friend who he mimicked in a cringeworthy and insulting manner just to get laughs, don’t tell me that this would not offend black people? It certainly did and this is the reason why his career went down the drain (along with his lousy jokes). The last thing black people need and want is our OWN PEOPLE having digs at each other because of the way we speak – British people are doing this job already!
Maybe the only reason Yolande irritates you with her fake accent is because of the points I raised in my earlier blog. TV scriptwriters are so out of touch, and have no clue as to how an authentic Caribbean accent should sound, or how we really do live our lifes. Black women are spirited, fun loving, charismatic and very honest. Yolande’s character is dull because, I’ll say it again, writers DO NOT understand that not all black people are argumentative and loud, but can also play roles with great depth, e.g. Thandie Newton. Many black actors/actresses’ are forced to portray characters in a one dimensional way in order not to outshine their White counterparts who’s acting may be less credible. No doubt EE writers would have advised Angela Wynter to ‘tone down’ her accent and mannerisms for fear of alienating the majority of White British license payers.
You are also being a bit naïve to assume that if you criticised an English person’s accent then you would not receive complaints – are you serious?! People, regardless of race, can be notoriously touchy about their origins and will defend their background. You would have received a volley of abusive mail if it was revealed that you were a black person passing derogatory comments on an English accent. We are a minority in this country, and some white people (who already view African/Caribbean accents as strange and funny) would demand to know what right a black person has to slate an English accent!
These are my points which I think you have totally failed to see.
no name, thank you for your response. We will not agree on this subject and that\’s that. I think aspects of your argument clearly show that you, and others like you, have totally missed the point of what I\’ve said.
There is NO link to racism with regard to my view of Yolande – NONE. I don\’t like her accent in the same way that I don\’t like Janice Battersby\’s accent. Why? Because they both irritate me. Now according to you, I will receive a – let me get the words right, "volley of abusive mail" from white people because I dare to say I don\’t like the whining voice and accent of one soap character. I say that you\’re wrong. Bring it on.
I can\’t stand Janice Battersby! Bring back Cilla!
YOLANDE??? Inject a bit of life into the character. Let \’Patrick\’ discover that \’Yolande\’ has a secret life of a call girl for an agency. Let him see that she is hypocritical with a false pious nature. He could catch her half dressed in a hotel room with a client. Test Ms Wynter\’s acting skills.
Yolande Trueman Why ? axe her i can.t understand that you cant provide a script for this character with all the knife and gun crimes happening there should be enough story line for this character your script writer should lift there head from the clouds and face reality on whats happening here and now Angela Wynter would play a good part …………………..KEEP UP TODATE WITH YOUR SCRIPTS…its 2008
Ur so rasist. Ur sick of hearin her accent yh? oh plz! i\’m sick of the rubbish articles u write. Bloody hell! iz dat all u do, cuss pple all day? go sort ur self out lady, u need a lyf. I\’m nt frm her country but thats still offensive.
(no name) who left a comment on 06 July at 18:09, if you\’re going to cuss people, at least learn how to spell. The word is \’racist\’ not \’rasist\’. Secondly, I am black so how can I be racist towards Yolande? And thirdly, you should have read all the comments here first before leaving a comment that exposes your stupidity.
Wow!! reading these comments has disturbed me, I personally think Yolande as a character is weak and her accent is un-natural, \’grating\’ I agree wasn\’t the best choice of noun when writing an article viewed by such a vast amount of people but everyone is entitled to their opinion and this is what the writer gets paid to do, whether we as the general public agree with it or not.
Her comment was too honest and brash…..Not Racist.
And before anyone gets up in arms about what I\’ve said, I am a Black young lady and am tired of people playing the race card unneccessarily. If something offends you, think about it before you go shooting your mouth off and tackle the issue at hand in an appropriate manner.
Calling someone racist because of that wording faux pas is outrageouse and ignorant.
(no name) who left a comment on 06 July at 21:01, I agree with everything you\’ve said. However, \’grating\’ was most definitely the best choice of word because that accent does grate on me. It annoys me, hence the choice of word. Here\’s the dictionary definition: grate (ANNOY) Show phoneticsverb [I] When a noise or behaviour grates, it annoys you:After a while her voice really started to grate on me.It\’s the way she\’s always talking about herself – it just grates on me.
thank god, yolande is booring!! Zzzz
R U thick or sumtin, i neva spelt nefin wrong i wz jus writing in slang. Yhyh about me exposin ma stupidy, look at urself girly u hav nurfin betta 2 do apart frm writing about pples lives. What kind of person cusses back their readers that is just so unproffesional, whoever hired you should sack u! Ur a waste of space!
Oh yh and hw da hell r u black, there wz a pik of da writer and her name is ms bubbles and she wz white and she didnt look mixed race or black, so wat u on?
Ms Soap Editor, You are a racist! !! !!! you claim to be a black person but i don\’t think you know the value of been a black. keep slanging people up because i know this is going to land you somewhere…………….hum, well i don\’t know
nonma and (no name) Dnt watch who I am – I am black and I am not a racist and you both need to calm down. I reserve the right to have any opinion about any soap character I choose to, irrespective of colour. It\’s called freedom of expression.
Soap editor, I agree with your view of Yolande. But what I find astounding is the reaction of some really ignorant people like (no name) Dnt watch who I am; this person can\’t spell so why are you bothering to listen to his/her ignorant rantings? And nonma and Leah and others have called you a racist despite the fact that you\’ve said you\’re black. Just ignore them!!!! They\’re not worth bothering with.
(no name) Dnt watch who I am, (no name) Dnt watch who I am, if you can\’t take it – don\’t dish it out. And you\’re not writing slang – you\’re writing text speak (I think); the two are entirely different things. Back to the subject and I really don\’t care that Yolande\’s going. Plenty more boring characters have gone before her and there\’ll be plenty more after her. Isn\’t that the nature of soap operas?
Shut up maz, i can spell i\’m not a loser lyk u 2 waste ma tym writing down a whole word. Benny wat da hell would u no? Da soap editor shouldn\’t say bad things about pples accents dats a lil bit offensive. Y does she need 2 cuss pple 2 make a good article.
Sorry (no name), no external urls allowed I\’m afraid. Thanks for your comment though – I agree with every word you\’ve said.
(no name)08 July 00:12
(http://cid-bbc19b787b5527c9.spaces.live.com/)In this instance I don\’t think it is racism. I am a black male, and quite frankly where Yolande accents came from is beside me as I have never heard my mother\’s generation sounding anything llike that. Eastenders has gone down the drains losing to Hollyoaks and that is because the mistake she makes or made was to axe all the good main characters and brought in flat one. The only rounded character left is Dot and Ian and patrick Trueman the rest are ticking time bombs waiting for their contract to termintate.
lol I think no name is just a lil girl who doesnt fully understand the world yet. theres no need to get so upset just cos someone is attacking a black fictional character, we don\’t always have to stick together. I argee with what the editor said apart from two points-1. I thought your articale was way too harsh, it seemed almost like a personally attack on the actress who play yolande but then again as you personally dislike the character so much maybe it just comes across that way. Maybe if I was writing about Dawn Miller it would come across in a similar way too. 2. I dont actually think Yolandes accent is that bad and find it quite realistic so personally her accent doesn\’t grate on me.I do agree that the character is quite flat tho and is quite pointless but then most of eastenders is nowadays, why Dawn survive the blast is quite beyond me I find the lady who plays her a terrible actress and the only reason I can find as to why they kept her is her looks.To no name Im a black man sometimes you have to look beyond race and see whether what a person is saying is relevant or not. Just cos someone is speaking against a black person doesn\’t mean their racist, it would be silly to have a soap full of 2 dimensional characters with no purpose just so we can have a soap full of black characters. Id rather have one Patrick (and Paul ) Truemans than five Yolandes (or Steves lol)
I think Yolander is a watse of space and deadwood I can see that she cannot act and also that she has no class.
lol i think people didnt take the time to understand what the writer meant. When she said Yolandes accent grated on her she meant that the fake accent the actress uses annoys her, or even the way the actress speaks annoys her, NOT that she finds carribean accents grating which is how I think most of the flamers on here read it lol its a shame people are so quick to attack and make fools of themselves
I dont understand how people can say the editor was saying she found all carribean accents grating when the article was clearly written about one person/character-Yolande. Not only that she says she LOVES patrick who also speaks in a carribean accent, unless you are really THICK its very obvious that she was talking about the way one person speaks. I could say to a polish person I cant understand YOUR accent, it doesn\’t mean I cant understand polish people when they speak it just means I dont understand this one particular people Black people you need to get out and mix with other people I find a lot of black people Especially women tend to just stick to their own group and are quick to label anything stickly agaianst them as racist, there is more to the world than race.
Richard, thanks for your sensible comments. I have amended one aspect of my article: I originally said "she\’ll barely be remembered in a year\’s time". I was actually referring to Yolande, but I think some people might\’ve thought I meant actress Angela Wynter. Apologies for any misunderstandings. It\’s Yolande that I think is doomed to join the rest of the EastEnders also-rans, not Angela Wynter. Just wanted to clear that up.
Richard, I am a black woman and I find your remarks very insulting – not just to intelligent black women, but also to black people as a whole. To state that black people fail to integrate with other cultures is patronising and misguided. Many black people have tried to be accepted by other races, only to be met with open suspicion or mockery. Hardly surprising that uncomfortable past experiences have made us decide to stick to our own communities. This does not mean that because we feel more comfortable within our own environment that we are all quick to label everything and everyone as racist. Why do black women get criticised for \’sticking to their own\’? A white women who only mixes with other white women or groups is not viewed in this way. Its so much more difficult for us to venture into other communities than it is for a white person who can fit in and be accepted almost anywhere.
Also back to you Ms Soap Editor – feelings do run high amongst black people who will CONTINUE to feel sensitive about the way in which we are misrepresented, not just in the media, but also in society. This is a glaringly obvious fact which is not going to go away. We need to stop having cheap digs and turning on each other because we want to further our careers and be accepted by our white counterparts (who NEVER will accept us). We will agree to disagree on that, obviously, as you cannot see the wood for the trees. I agree that its a personal preference to dislike somebody\’s accent but I am amazed that you cannot see the significance of a fellow black person judging their own in such a negative manner. When are we ever going to support each other? It may have been a fleeting comment that you made which has created such a huge fuss but Angela Wynter\’s accent was an embarrassment because the last thing scriptwriters want is to lose ratings by depicting a real Caribbean accent – the BBC will receive the usual complaints \’I can\’t understand what that black person is saying, can\’t you get some real British accents and characters back on screen?\’
This is why Angela Wynter\’s accent is fake – she had to tone it down to keep her job. Why should she have to? Why dosen\’t the character who plays Phil Mitchell tone down his cockney vowels? Its ok for him to drop all his letters each week – does everybody understand what he is mumbling about? Would you have made such a remark in a public place where there is a high percentage of black people who speak with a Caribbean accent, or even back home in your country of origin? I doubt if you would because you know you would have caused an outcry. Black people already get enough stick for the way we speak, conduct ourselves etc etc. without our own adding fuel to the fire.
You\’re a black woman who is in a position to represent us. We need positive black media spokespeople – if you have nothing constructive to say about us then maybe you are in the wrong profession.
I suppose anyone who ever says something that insults me in a certain way, or says something not particulaly good about me is racist towards white people then? GET OVER IT! Just because the woman is black does not make a simple comment about her racist! This all seems like paranoia. The editor said she is black! Come on… It\’s stupid! Also, \’We need to stop having cheap digs and turning on each other because we want to further our careers and be accepted by our white counterparts (who NEVER will accept us)\’ sorry but that isn\’t true. Most people actually do accept everyone. It\’s mainly older people who have been brought up with different views who may have slight racist attitudes, but nothing that really causes offense. It\’s paranoia. Sorry.
And, people on here seem to see black and white people as separate species\’ or something, African Queen, you are entitled to your own opinion, but you said
\’ I am amazed that you cannot see the significance of a fellow black person judging their own in such a negative manner. When are we ever going to support each other?\’
Why can\’t human beings as a whole support each other. To be honest, I know many black people, and they are the same as the rest of us, no different. It\’s like the difference between me with blonde hair and my best friend who has brown hair. An insignificant physical difference. If I have a problem with someone, I\’ll say it despite what they look like. I won\’t hold back because they are white or have blonde hair etc like me. That in itself would be racist. Most people don\’t judge people for their race nowadays, and I\’m sorry to say that it was the black people on here who started this, by blowing a simple comment out of proportion.
Oh, I\’ve found another part I don\’t agree with. \’We need positive black media spokespeople – if you have nothing constructive to say about us then maybe you are in the wrong profession.\’ AAARRRR! Angela Wynter is a person. Not a black person, but a person like me, like you, like every other person in the world! Just because the editor made a comment about her that isn\’t complimentry doesn\’t mean it isn\’t constructive! Her accent is grating, and Patrick\’s isn\’t. And Phil Mitchell wasn\’t even brought into the comments because THIS ISN\’T ABOUT HIM! That\’s why, I\’m sure his voice annoys many people but he wasn\’t relevent!
OK, I\’ll accept that in the past, way back in history, black people were treated in a bad way. This was mainly due to white people never seeing them before, not understanding they were just like us, and eventually this went on to make them slaves etc. Nowadays, we are all accepted in society. Why do we need a positive black spokesperson? Isn\’t that sinbgling yourselves out. Look, you\’re the same as the rest of us, and we all see you as the same, but, and I am very sorry if this in ay way upsets you, it is you African Queen who seems to see yourself as different, not the rest of us.
And the editor is here because she (i\’m guessing) enjoys her job, she is good at it, and most people enjoy her work. Why should she be free to say what she wishes (obviously within limitations) about white people without arguments, but then if she mentions a black person it\’s racist? That would be racist. She isn\’t here as a representative of black people, she\’s here doing her job, she is her own representative just like I am my own, and you should be your own.
Rant Finished (for now) X
The writer of this article has said nothing that SHOULD be insulting to anyone. This is an opinionated report by a clear soap fan. If a person finds this insulting then the problem lies with that person and not with the writer of this article. People in Britain are entitled to their opinion and freedom to speak freely. There are no racist remarks in this interview if you read it properly (instead of reading Yorlande….time for her to go…..grating accent). This is purely politcal correctness which is ruining society and culture aswell as the civil rights of the true British people – if im allowed to say that without being accused racist – fact is you know what i mean by it even if it doesnt sound quite right. The writer of this article should ignore taunts from Black people or from anyone accusing her of racism. These people are bullys and do not represent right thinking members of ANY community. And certainly not the British communityOne last thing, the writer has been brave in this article and talked about a Black woman in the same manner as a white woman. And of course is getting stick for it. It\’s fine to say you dont like a white woman…of course. So do Black people wanted to be treated the same? Doesnt appear so. Different? History says no. Special…? -and call me a racist but that one is MY opinion
I understand what the writer is trying to say and I sympathise with her. She is simply saying that she finds the character annoying, the accent is a characterisation and as a person with West Indian heritage I do find that her accent is exaggerated and sometimes unrealistic. However that does not mean I am not fond of the West Indian accent because I am.
Now for some reason certain individuals think that if you don\’t like traits that come with an individual, regardless of their colour, if they are black you are being racist. Now I can honestly say some of the black people who have commented on this blog are "grating" me not because they are black, or because they may have an accent but because they are idiots. Colour and race doesn\’t come in to it and I think bringing up the race card so quickly and being so defensive shows that some of "our people" (such a segregating way of putting it) clearly have a hang up about it and if anything they themselves are the ones who are being prejudice. How can you expect people of other races to embrace our ethnicity if you push them away and complain so much about the bad treatment you receive because of it. No we shouldn\’t always stick together just for the sake of race, speak for yourselves not for "your people".
djebeq and (no name) – 09 July 00:41 and Cookie, thanks for your comments. I agree with every word. It\’s great to see that so many people, of all colours, understood what I meant.
African Queen – I am here to talk about the world of soaps. Last time I looked, I wasn\’t running for some kind of seat in the United Nations. Politics has its place – but its not here and so black characters in soaps will get just as much stick or praise from me as white characters or Asian characters or gay characters or anything else you care to name. And that, my friend, is true equality.
Can we stick to the soap please and not the drama going on here. This is a prime example of words getting misinterpreted or the readers seeing what they want and not what is in front of them. Everybody seckle their skin please.
i get what ur saying about her being a bore and not useful but i think the line about the accent shouldnt be there
I\’m quite shocked that people have time to argue over an editors opinion, this is all it is an innocent opinion!
My mother is a black woman of 50 years old, who while watching Eastender would often voice her annoyance of the portrayal of black people on soaps…. I know that this is a totally whole new argument, but the point that I would like to quickly get across is I\’m glad they are axing Yolande because she was a very bad example of a black woman on tv!!!!
It was embarrassing to watch, with her accent and rolling eyes!!! it was cringe worthy….
lets just hope Yolande and the other departed characters are replaced by quality actors what ever there colour, sex, age, ect!!!!!
Sorry to hear that Youlande is on the tube out of Eastenders. This departure means I will have to watch the whole episode. normally when she is on I go make a drink, that or fall asleep and miss the good parts.
In the complaints area, why do do gooders watch the program and phone in when there is something disrastefull shown. I wonder if they would ring the police if the next door neighbour was knocking 7 bells out of his wife, I think not.
I for one enjoy the soap, even the doom and gloom is part of real life.
Bigbadjona
I really didn\’t intend on leaving a comment after the one i left a few days ago but quite frankly some of the ones below, specifically African Queen\’s, have compelled me to.African Queen: "I am amazed that you cannot see the significance of a fellow black person judging their own in such a negative manner."I\’m not amazed a there is actually no significance and The Soap Editor hasn\’t in reality \’Judged\’ the Character or Actress in a negative way as in my oppion she hasn\’ed judged at all. Please stop portraying this Them and Us social image which, as a memeber of the black community, i don\’t subscribe to.love to rant for ages but i\’m off to re watch The Wire…now theres a good tv series.
I skim read some comments and the writer of the article being racist??…oh come on..play the other card…accept it, the character Yolande is abysmal..black, white or asian..the accent is awful and the storylines are well below par! I\’m black and have to say that Yolande is one of the worst characters in Eastenders (though at this moment in time thats not saying much). Yolande wont be remembered a month after shes gone, let alone a year!! nothing bad on the actress herself, the scritp writers just need to start doing a good job.
The accent was absolutely atrocious (why she had to have one in the first place, i don\’t know) and her story lines were well below average. The best one was probably when Patrick went into a coma…
I hadn\’t realised she had been in the soap up to 5 years…surprised she didn\’t go sooner!! I\’ve personally stopped watching Eastenders (a show i used to be addicted to) because its torture to my eyes..last good storyline was Phil, that mad woman (can\’t remember her name) and Ben…many more characters need to go starting with the Mitchell sisters, that one that works in the pub (did she ever have breast cancer?), her large (soz for not being pc) friend…all of them bar the golden oldies (and stacy and bradley of course)
Sorry African Queen, but who appointed you as the representative of the black race? You don\’t speak for me either. Actors of all colours are in an industry where criticism is the norm. Pick up any paper or magazine and someone\’s performance somewhere is being assessed and they\’re either the best thing since sliced bread or the worst. That\’s just how it is. As the soap editor said, Yolande hasn\’t been written well but she\’s not the only one. I couldn\’t stand the character either – she got on my last nerve and I had to grit my teeth every time she opened her mouth. I just wonder what they\’ll do with Patrick now. I hope they don\’t get rid of him.
Cara did I say I was representing the black race? I\’m not arrogant or stupid enough to speak on behalf of you or other black people who are entitled to their own opinion. We’re all here to express our thoughts but it’s a shame that I’ve now been pulled up for mentioning that I think black people need positive media role models!! Of course there are a whole lot of bad actors out there, irrespective of their colour or accent, which is unimportant, but as a black woman I\’m obviously going to be more interested in a black woman on screen and how the character is portrayed. Its fine for the Editor to slag off a Caribbean accent but nobody can dare to challenge her about it. I\’m entitled to voice my opinion just as much as her, you or the next person.
To No name (9th July 00.41) your comments infuriated me, and have exposed your stupidity. Your patronising and feeble comments as to why black people were slaves because of ‘white people not understanding that they were just like us’!! And you say you have black friends? So it’s perfectly alright for black people to have been whipped, beaten, chained, raped and murdered because ‘white people did not understand us’ You asked why we need a positive black spokesperson? If you can ask me such an idiotic question that then I suggest that you ask your black friends to enlighten you. I see myself as different?? Of course I do, we’re all different, and who are ‘the rest of us’? Are you a white person speaking for black people? If you are then you are not doing a very good job. We are already ‘singled out’ whether we try to live our lives positively or not. Just because you associate with black people this does not give you the right to offer me laughable race relations advice on how to blend in with the world. This discussion was not even going down this route until you decided to spout your racist nonsense. I think you need to read some black history books as you appear to be so ignorant.
Also the only reason I mentioned Phil in EE is because even though he has nothing to do with the discussion the point I was trying to make is that him and many others in the soap have the worst accent, rubbish storylines and wooden acting but nobody ever knocks them, even if they\’ve been in the cast for years going nowhere. Other subscribers on this blog have discussed other characters who also have no relevance to the original Yolande threat so maybe you need to read all of the comments before passing judgement.
To Torak100 if you cannot see that the significance of a black person not even understanding why a black actress has to speak in a fake way to disguise her natural accent then that is your problem. The ‘them and us’ social image that you sniff at is already existent in society, you don’t need to ‘subscribe’ to it as you already belong to it, whether you chose to acknowledge this fact or not is upto you.
Yolande’s character was not a good representation of black women, I agree, but she\’s probably following writers instructions to tone down the mannerisms and accent of a fictional person from the West Indies. I know several people from the Caribbean who have said they cannot identify with her character. The eye rolling and kissing teeth is offensive but writers are out of touch and think all black people still behave and act in this way. This is my original point, I wasn’t attacking the Editor for doing her ‘job’ but wanted to express why Angela Wynter’s accent had to be watered down, and why her character was so lifeless. Scriptwriters do not understand how black people live, therefore some black actors will come across as a joke. Incidentally my dear Soap Editor you do not have to be a UN member to talk in a positive way even if you are earning a living by observing fictional characters on TV.
This never started off as a race issue but judging by the responses it seems that black people are the first to chastise their own if somebody dares to challenge a negative remark made about a fellow black person. Now I’m more convinced than ever that we just do not like each other, I don’t need to be a spokesperson to observe and make that point.
African Queen, the editor has not slagged off Caribbean accents in general. All she\’s said is that Yolande\’s particular accent annoys her – that\’s very clear to most people who\’ve read what she\’s written. I also agree with everyone that\’s said that Yolande hasn\’t been written very well. Angela Wynter can count herself very lucky to have gotten five years out of EastEnders considering that the character didn\’t really have much of a point.
Louise, thanks but I am fully aware that the Editor was not referring to all Carribbean acccents. All of her work colleagues and friends have backed her corner against my disagreement as to why I thought this one character had an irritating accent. I think everybody has made their point, right or wrong, and as far as I\’m concerned I have nothing further to add.
African Queen, I\’m saddened that you took my comments with such offence, when I clearly believe everyone is equal. I can assure you I am as racist as you, I don\’t stand for it at all. The things I were saying, all are because of my beliefs of equality, and in that case, why would you need a spokesperson for a group of people no different to everyone else. When I say this, I don\’t mean physical difference which you mentioned, we are all clearly physically different, but inside, we are all the same. (Like Bon Jovi\’s song Welcome to Wherever you are, \’maybe we\’re all different but we\’re still the same.\’) And yes, this is why most white explorers many years ago saw black people as different. This does not make up for any of the awful things that happened to black people, do not even think I agree with any of the things they did. Black people were treated disgracefully, due to the fact that white people didn\’t fully understand black people are equal. And I\’ve read many black history books, and have studied history in great detail, and also done similar studies but with a religious background/belief type thing. Native Americans were treated in a similar manner. I was in no way meaning to be \’a white person speaking for black people\’ as you can clearly read in my comments, I think we all have the power to be our own spokesperson. I don\’t speak for anyone but my own, and possibly the beliefs of some of my closest friends who don\’t come on this site. The point I was trying to put across, is why, just because she is black, should the editor of this blog have to be a spokesperson for black people. Should I become a spokesperson for blonde girls who are percieved as dumb? No, because it is pointless, as I, as well as everyone else, can see that I am the same inside as people with brown hair, black people, and asian people. I personally see no need for a black spokesperson, there isn\’t a white spokesperson! If that happened, wouldn\’t it just make the races seem more separate? Be your own spokesperson! I do not in any way think I understand what black people went through way back during the difficult times because I have friends who are black, but in the same way, neither do you, as you didn\’t live through the difficulties, we all have equality, equal rights, because we are all human beings, as I have clearly stated in my previous comment. If you can pass this as racism, then I can see why you pass a simple comment on an accent as racism.
Stupid really, this page probably wouldn\’t have so many comments if people didn\’t read into things the wrong way, Yolande was a dull character, and her fake accent WAS grating. It\’s time for her to go, well, it was a long time ago.
EastEnders is due for a bit of a cull because they\’ve got too many boring characters so good riddance to Yolande and I hope she takes those wretched Mitchell sisters with her and Bobby Davro.
in all honesty this has blown out of proportaion it was a through away comment in an midly amusing article but again i feel that i have to reply.
African Queen… I don\’t doubt that there are social devides but you unlike you i attempt to bridge devides rather than to increase them, your encourage the \’Them and Us\’ senario were as believe in an intergrated society.if you are fighint for the rights of the black community then bare in mind the words of Malcolm X "we have to keep in mind at all times that we are not fighting for seperation we are fighting for recognition as free humans in this society.
i may be young but I am proud of my black heritage and frankley the arrongance of your final pharagraph on 09 July 19:06 not only angers me but also displays that you as a peson quite clearly has a major superiority complex. lool as a politic student i feel compelled to quote john stuart mill who once said "If all mankind minus one were of one opinion, and only one person were of the contrary opinion, mankind would be no more justified in silencing that one person, than he, if he had the power, would be justified in silencing mankind"
laters everyone.
And as such i shall allow you to have your own view…as you should allow me to.
oh and before you nodoubt state somthing like "you dont understand black history, why are you quoting malcolm X" No doubt i understand it a hell of a lot better than you do and i can assure, i know more about black history.
EastEnders hasn\’t been good since the good ol\’ days of Phil and Grant…after the good ol\’ days of Den and Ange of course. But loads of boring characters have been in it and loads more will come after Yolande. The writers need to sharpen their pens.
To No name, feedback appreciated, and I\’ve taken your comments on board. Equality is fine in theory, we all want it, but in reality this is a non-existent concept. Black people need positive role models more than most (I\’m not speaking for all black people before I get crucified again) because we receive more negative press than most other races. I personally am tired of us being mocked for things like our accents, that is why I mentioned the presence of more MEDIA representatives to shed light on these kind of topics, e.g. why black actors/actresses have to disguise their natural accent in order to hold down their jobs. I have tried to be my own spokesperson on this but my comments were perceived in the wrong way, although I do not agree with you that it is pointless to have people in the spotlight speaking on our behalf. White people do not need a Spokesperson because in the world\’s eyes they can do no wrong. This is my opinion, I never said that one black woman has to be the Spokesperson for all black people, that is a ridiculous assumption which is not what I meant at all, but as a black female Editor of an online blog which is probably read by different nationalities, a bit more tact would not have gone amiss, especially from a woman who probably knows how a real Caribbean accent sounds. I still stand by what I say in that respect, and will not change my viewpoint.
To Torak100, you have the audacity to accuse me of having a complex (inferior or superior I do not know which one you were referring to) when you know NOTHING about me. If you feel so compelled by anger because I stated that black people do not support or like each other then maybe I\’ve hit a nerve. You confidently claim to bridge racism yet fail to respect another viewpoint on the subject of race and would rather focus on the person who has commented as opposed to the real topic (which has now become a major race issue). Of couse you are entitled to your views, and so am I. I expressed a view point as we all did and I don\’t need a lecture about Malcom X and black history – this displays a MAJOR COMPLEX on your part. Mr X, incidentally, later on took the view that all races should work against the system rather than individually fighting a race war. I don\’t doubt that you have a good knowledge of black history, and respect your opinion, but please do not knock mine. Thanks.
Everybody take a deep breath now…….in……..and out………in……..and out……..in……..and out………in……..and out. African Queen, I\’ve allowed you to answer Torak100 and I\’m now asking that Torak100 not respond – otherwise this will drag on forever and get very personal. Torak100, I hope you will be satisfied with the fact that I agree with you and there is no need to pick up on anything further said by African Queen. We all know where we stand now and none of us are budging so there you are. 🙂
Dear Soaps Editor,
I am personally offended by the \’grating accent\’ comment. I read it and immediately \’thought that\’s a bit racist isn\’t it\’.
I haven\’t read all the thread below, so I won\’t comment on it.
I think it is disappointing and unprofessional that you make that comment. You may find other accents not to your taste, but to single hers out, and hers is a carribean accent, from grenada if i\’m not mistaken, and imply that there is something wrong with it is demonstrates prejudice and preference. Not everyone finds others accents to their tastes, Pakistanis, Australians, Geordies, there is the world to chose from, but nevertheless it must be accepted that everybody we meet does not have our background. And who is to say that theirs is wrong and ours is right. Or vice versa.
At least you are modest enough to call yourself an editor and not a journalist because I think many journalists would be disappointed if you chose to represent their profession in this manner. Editor is an ambiguous term, which to me doesn\’t imply any training or expertise, blogger at best I would say. Nevertheless your opinion I feel, is not best represented on an official MSN website.
To the Soap Editor, who in their right mind granted you the title of Editor? You\’ve mocked a person for their spelling mistakes, used patronising language to reply back to comments, refused to take on board anybody else\’s feedback, are only concerned with you\’re own self-importance and questionable opinion, rallied the support of you\’re colleagues/friends to bully people online into submission and now you are controllingly asking people not to respond to each other – I thought you were all for freedom of speech? You are so unprofessional, disrespectful and a disgrace to black women. Carry on treating the whole thing as a joke, the only humour is the fact that you will continue to be in denial because you are BRAINWASHED by the White society that we live in.
If you think its only going to be me that is offended by your comment then think again as there is one more person below (no name) who agrees that you were out of line. I have also spoken to several black people and they are fuming. Good luck in defending yourself from further criticism.
(no name) who left a comment here on 10 July at 10:45, you say you haven\’t read all the comments below which is a bit of a shame because it will explain so much.
African Queen, firstly, the person you\’ve indicated as agreeing with you has also said that he/she hasn\’t read the thread. For me, that\’s key. It\’s possible that, having read the thread, they may still come to the conclusion that they\’ve already reached. Then again, they may change their mind once they\’ve got the full picture. I just felt the need to point that out.
The reason why I\’ve asked Torak100 not to respond to you is because I\’m trying not to let this discussion descend into a situation where commentators are making personal attacks on each other. I have allowed people freedom of speech; I\’ve put up with people calling me a \’racist\’ when I\’m not, and as that is in print – legally, it\’s defamation. I\’ve also put up with you labelling me "unprofessional, disrespectful and a disgrace to black women" which I also vehemently disagree with. I\’ve allowed you to label me "brainwashed" – which is laughable. I\’ve also allowed you to accuse me of rallying "the support of you\’re [sic] colleagues/friends to bully people online into submission" when I have done no such thing – that\’s a very serious accusation and it\’s 100% untrue. So despite the fact that your accusations are wildly off the mark, I have still allowed you to make them and to personally attack me with far more venom than I ever bestowed on an EastEnders soap character.
It was not my intention to attack anybody and I apologise if feelings have run high and become personal, but as an Editor you also have to look at your own conduct. You have belittled some commentators who through no fault of their own might not have expressed themselves in the best way on something that they feel passionately about. Constantly mocking the opinion of others and taking great delight when collaborators have supported your own views seemed almost like bullying, this is why I used this expression, not to say that you are a bully. Your responses sometimes came across as unethical for somebody responsible for taking the lead on a discussion which has now been viewed by several people, many of whom originate from the same county as the character in question, and have taken offence. The whole thing only blew out of proportion because you refused to see anybody else’s opinion and treated those who opposed your comments as if they were short of a brain cell. I just think its common decency to listen to the views of others, whether you agree with them or not. Not everybody is going to be on your side so a bit more tolerance and maturity wouldn’t have gone amiss.
A round of applause for African Queen please!
I agree with what have said 100%. Maybe the editor needs to get of their highhorse and take heed. There\’s nothing wrong with constructive criticism.
African Queen, you\’re one to talk about tolerance and maturity when you\’ve displayed very little of these things yourself. Sorry editor, but some of the things she\’s written are way out of line. And then she expects to be taken seriously? It\’s people like her who\’ve blown this all out of proportion.
I am MSN\’s TV Editor, I\’ve read the original article and I\’ve read all the comments. I am reminded of the 1980s Guardian advert called Points of View. It featured a skinhead who looked like he was about to mug someone from one angle. However, it\’s only when you get the full picture, viewed from another angle, that you realise he is actually saving the man from falling masonry.
Applying that to this discussion, I am of the opinion that some people need to take a step back and look at the entire picture; there is nothing \’racist\’ about the originating article and the Soap Blogger is not \’racist\’. Some feathers have been ruffled by her (very personal) view about Yolande Trueman but similarly, I\’m of the opinion that Don Cheadle\’s Cockney accent in the Ocean\’s Eleven films is an absolute disgrace. That accent grated on me, it made my ears bleed and it spoilt my enjoyment of the movies. I do not see how my stance on Don Cheadle is any different to the Soap Blogger\’s view on Yolande. Constructive criticism is fine Mal, but personal attacks are not. I do not see anything to applaud in that.
If you\’d like to view the Guardian advert that I speak of: here it is.
Wow, this whole thing has been completely blown out of proportion. The editor of this blog has faced cruel comments from many of the people commenting here, because she has mentioned how one persons voice grates on her. Many of the people commenting have spoken about the way we are entitled to our own opinions, and then you bite her head off for saying she finds Yolande\’s voice annoying. I find her voice annoying, and I\’m sure many of you do! It\’s a fact! Patrick\’s isn\’t annoying, and I hope he stays, because he isn\’t dull and boring, not like Yolande who makes me want to cut off both of my arms for a bit of entertainment! (ok, slight exaggeration, but you know what I mean) There\’s no need for personal comments which many people have left, a little debatewill always happen on sites like this, but to actually personally insult someone who takes time to do a blog for our enjoyment, that\’s disgraceful.
I\’m a little offended by some of African Queen\’s comment. I don\’t want a response, as I can see this going on for a long time, but by saying \’Carry on treating the whole thing as a joke, the only humour is the fact that you will continue to be in denial because you are BRAINWASHED by the White society that we live in.\’ Sorry, but isn\’t that a tad racist on your behalf because you seem to make white people out to be bad people, or to say that the editor being like white people is something to laugh at, and is used as an insult. I do feel sorry for you African Queen, as you clearly haven\’t had good experiences with white people, as you don\’t have a very high opinion of us, but I can assure you that most white people won\’t be racist.
I can see everyone\’s point of view, but to be honest, the person I feel most sorry for is the editor, her comment has been blown way out of proportion, and she didn\’t deserve all of this. The sentence that caused all of this seems to me as innocent as my brother saying my voice annoys him. Not racist, just an opinion. Ok, it\’s not a compliment in any way, but racist? I\’m not so sure. If she said she found Caribbean accents annoying, then I\’d see your point, but to say one persons voice annoys her is completely different.
you talk stupid of course she is a great character you need them types in society , u say she is not an intersting character, well i can see y
because she doesnt become a prostitute on the side or do drugs or murder any one, not only r u stupid there are many like you in a job they should not be in ,your views are yours only and no one elses and they are stupid in my opinion.
you deserve the sack as your a total idiot
(no name), I hope you feel better now that you\’ve got your rant off your chest. However, I certainly won\’t be sacking anyone I\’ve hired on the basis of your opinion.
OMG! can people not even write a blog with out ppl crying because of a few words. The comments were focused on a CHARACTER not the actress, ITS NOT REAL!
\’HER voice is annoying\’ hmmmmmmmmm………. I didnt hear the writer mention the stupid overdone cockney accents? Dawn? Stacey? etc. They are a LOT worse.
Plus there are plenty more characters there 4 no reason, Sean? The Millers? Bianca & her children? Shirly n her partner?….. etc.
Cara (10th Jul 20:36), you seem to have a problem with me more than other contributors. I have never directed anything towards you; it was you in fact who attacked me for speaking on behalf of black people. You have pointed the finger at me for most of the disagreements, quoting ‘It\’s people like her who\’ve blown this all out of proportion’. I strongly disagree with your accusations, and in fact find your last statement really quite spiteful, not to mention inaccurate, but it is your opinion and I don’t want to make an issue out of that as it will be never ending.
I would just like to say that we are ALL to blame, we have ALL aired our views and defended our corner; this is the whole point of a discussion/debate – getting feedback from each other and maybe learning from that. Sorry if I sound like I’m preaching before you cuss me again and roll your eyes, but I’m sure we’ve all gone away after our rants and thought ‘oh maybe I went too far’. Comments only provoke each other more because we are all faceless, and not in a real environment where we can discuss things face to face, air our grievances, observe each others body language and know when to draw the line.
Talking online gives people more license to say what they wouldn’t normally say if they weren’t behind a computer screen. Maybe if we were all together in a public place we would choose our words more carefully. We all have things to say which need to be addressed. Everybody has their own opinions which are bound to conflict with each other at some stage, and things will become blown out of proportion, especially by people who have a stronger voice (so to speak). This doesn’t mean that they are inciting trouble.
If people are offended by somebody disrespecting their accent then they should be allowed to voice that. I still cannot see why it was perfectly acceptable for the Editor to make a statement, and then refuse to see that she might have cause wrongdoing. This was a free for all discussion, even if it was something as unimportant as a character in a Soap opera, and we were all entitled to respond to her comments, whether or not we agreed with what she had said. The general support towards the Editor was ‘leave her alone, she’s entitled to her opinion’ – but what about those who she had aggravated with her statement? Those that spoke out in defence were basically told to shut up and get over it. What was the point of starting a thread if the Editor was going to play such a central part? Is this the norm for a person who works in Editorial? Isn’t their contribution minimal?
Additionally even if you are the most placid person you cannot fail to notice that she appeared to have no regard for some, and seemed to be having a laugh at the expense of others, sorry to drag it all up again but such comments were not helpful:
‘Part of me wants to let the people who\’ve got the wrong end of the stick make bigger fools of themselves\’
‘Why am I even dignifying such utterly stupid arguments with a response?
‘If you\’re going to cuss people, at least learn how to spell’.
‘..read all the comments here first before leaving a comment that exposes your stupidity\’
‘I am here to talk about the world of soaps. Last time I looked, I wasn\’t running for some kind of seat in the United Nations’.
‘Everybody take a deep breath now…….in……..and out………in……..and out……..in……..and out………in……..and out’.
‘I hope you will be satisfied with the fact that I agree with you and there is no need to pick up on anything further said by African Queen. We all know where we stand now and none of us are budging so there you are. :-)’
My original defence to Angela Wynter was something I felt passionately about because personally I love her sing song voice and gentle manner, but that’s not to say that everybody should warm to her. Maybe because she appears so harmless on screen that it was questionable as to why the Editor should express relief that she should be sacked. As one person rightly said on this blog, there are so few black actors/actress\’s out there so why not try to support them as opposed to focusing on a dodgy accent. Her accent is watered down because some viewers might not want to hear a raw, non-English accent, no matter how much they adore that particular actress. Scriptwriters know this and do not want to lose even more ratings (EE is already losing the plot). Also as to her character being dull, again have writers ever spent a day with a real black family to find out how they live? Black people generally do have bags of charisma and are naturally, hilariously funny J
On a final note re Tia, I read your feedback with interest, although there’s no need for you to pity me because I’ve had good and bad experiences with people of all races, and do not feel bitter towards any one sector of society. Treat people in the way that you wish to be treated, is my motto in answer to your accusation of me being a racist.
Hello no name – the focus was firmly on Yolande because she was the story that day; the BBC had announced that she\’d be written out. However, I did mention that the now-departed Millers, Keith and Mickey, were also equally pointless…..
African Queen, I am the TV Editor. I refer you to my remarks below. In addition, I have read all of the comments and quotes taken out of context are rarely a good idea, especially as some of the comments that prompted the responses were personal attacks ranging from slander to defamation.
Suffice it to say that the Soap Blogger is free to carry on expressing her opinions – the originating article contains nothing that I consider reprehensible. However, I would like to talk to you about this personally African Queen so please feel free to e-mail me on msnukTV@hotmail.co.uk
TV Editor, thank you for the offer but I have nothing more to say. People are free to express but it\’s only fair to take into consideration other peoples opinion, regardless of what your own personal beliefs are. I have also been personally attacked for stating my opinion but I\’m still willing to take on board another person\’s criticism even if it offends me.
Just to let future commentators know, as I am of the opinion that the originating article is not \’racist\’, I will no longer tolerate this accusation against the Soap Blogger. Future comments along this line will be deleted as they are defamatory. African Queen – thanks for the response. You are free to contact me if you change your mind.
at last, yolande is going, i have to agree, she was as useful as a slap in the face, her character in general was boring, when her character was on screen, it gave me a good reason to make another cuppa. i dont think she will be missed, not like some of the other characters, i do hope that her exit will be more exciting than her first scenes on eastenders.
arrgh I had
wrote out a long and witty apology to African queen regarding my comments about
black women and then… it just disappeared. Basically I just wanted to say
sorry as when I was writing them I had in mind various black women I had met
over the years who do think in the way I had describe. Mainly they were in my
head as a lot of them would have been saying exactly the same thing that some
of the earlier comments had said, however I have equally met black women mainly
through work and education (I wonder why? lol) who don\’t hold these views and
would be happy to mix with people of any colour-I had just conveniently
forgotten about them when I had written my post.
First and foremost, the article was about a specific character, so therefore the editor gave her opinions about this specific character. As a black male, i in no way or form see how this could be misconstrued as rascist. Her comments werent aimed at a group of people, it was aimed at an individual. ive come across black people who seemingly make it their hobby to try and sqeeze out anything they could remotely claim to be rascist out of peoples comments and i personally think its a very bad and vicious practice. Some people are constantly under the illusion that anything negative said about a black person that does not have any indication or view towards their ethnicity can still be considered racist. This is absolute rubbish. The Editor did not mention or indicate anything towards race or ethnicity, she just made comments about a character in a tv show that happened to be black. We can take criticism, bad things can be said about us and the reasons dont necessarilly have to summount to the colour of our skin. We\’ve been through a lot but that doesn\’t mean we should blame everything on racism. Certain black people are so quick to scream racism and it gets on my damn nerves, its almost as if they are waiting for it to happen and thats not a good attitude to have towards life.
I suppose it\’s no suprise about Yolande\’s character being write out of the soap.
The actress had poor stoylines.
The writers are to blame for that.
its no wonder she has been written out her story lines are all rubbish she hasnt been involved with a major story line for a while.
I actually CANNOT believe the arguments this comment about a soap (not real life) has caused!! I didn\’t even think anything of the comments made untill i saw what everyone else had to say.
Iv read all of the comments & think the people calling this rascism, are actually quite rascist themselves!!
I would like to point out a comment from African Queen on 4july 1640-\’i have never heard a carribean of african accent descibed as grating, this line of remark is something that you would hear from a non tolerant english person who would prefer to hear and see a white person\’……..Did anyone shout rascism at this remark towards english people?!! NO!!
I think this remark is allot more rascist than someone not liking someone elses accent, yolande has no point on eastenders aswell as a few others…get a life & get over it!!
P.S i hope the soap blogger hasn\’t got too upset by all this name calling, finger pointing and total bullying by some people!!
Keep up the good work!
Danielle, at some point different accents may irritate you, but you assume individuals from the same background/country of origin, would be used to each other\’s dialect, that is what I meant, not to say that they should embrace that if it irritates the hell out of them, but you would just be more tolerant. I am not a racist, despite what you implied, I did not say all English people are intolerant (if you read what I wrote) but having worked in the Media and other organisations, I am aware that a large percentage of English people may not necessarily want to hear or see \’ethnic\’ faces on TV speaking in their natural dialect/accent – this is not me being racist but just speaking the truth – sorry if it offends but its a fact of life and if you think otherwise well that is upto you…. I just find it amusing that a programme such as EE is full of, for instance, cockney rhyming slang, which may be annoying and incomprehensible to some people but receives no criticism, its just accepted because of the location of where we live. On the flip side of the coin a non-english audience may not want to hear or see an English person on screen. Again this is not discrimination – the public are expressing preference, right or wrong. It\’s what they feel comfortable with, even if this is construed as racist behaviour!
African Queen, just one thing: "I am aware that a large percentage of English people may not necessarily want to hear or see \’ethnic\’ faces on TV speaking in their natural dialect/accent – this is not me being racist but just speaking the truth – " Unless you\’ve got the figures to back that up, it\’s a bit unfair because it\’s a sweeping generalisation of \’English people\’. I honestly think that\’s where you go wrong – you tend to make huge generalisations and it makes you sound like you\’re raving rather than rational.
Take as an example, 1980s sitcom Desmonds; it was very popular with people from all backgrounds and it featured a mixture of accents: natural West Indian, African and Londoners. It\’s still on Trouble today so it must be popular again – and with kids. Take as another example Rudolph Walker; he does a great job as Patrick in EastEnders. Everybody loves him because he\’s a good actor and his accent sounds convincing. Another example? Popular BBC show The No. 1 Ladies\’ Detective Agency which was made by the late Anthony Minghella. It starred a mixture of African and American actors, with the Americans doing African accents (they did OK, but I would\’ve preferred it if they\’d just cast African actors) and it was a big hit for the BBC. Give people a bit of credit for seeing quality.
As for EastEnders, most of the accents have to be \’London\’ accents because that\’s where it\’s set. Just as in Coronation Street, most of the accents have to suggest Lancashire. Or Liverpudlian for Brookside (those were the days!) Doesn\’t mean that there can\’t be other accents – of course there can. People move around and migrate etc. It just sounds liek your views are coloured by your own bad experiences and that\’s a shame.
African Queen, external urls are not allowed and so I have had to edit your post slightly and take them out.
African Queen17 July 01:48Zebedee, I think you also need to review your comments. You imply that I am ‘raving’ because I make ‘generalised’ statements. I am not in any way suggesting that the same applies to all; I said a large percentage, I did not pinpoint every single English person. Just to prove that I have not taken complete leave of my senses please click on the following links which describes the uproar caused 2 years ago by Radio 4 listeners unhappy about listening to a Caribbean accent (These are just a small example, if you need more facts/info then let me know):
As per your views on ‘Patrick Trueman’ – he is undoubtedly a great iconic actor, who has been acting for years in Shakespeare etc. Maybe this is why his accent is so effortless. You also said that characters in a show have to reflect the filming location – not strictly true – if I’m not mistaken the character who plays ‘Dawn’s’ boyfriend has a Lancashire/Mancunian accent. Just because a show is filmed in a certain area does it mean that other nationalities/dialects are excluded? London is after all supposed to be a multicultural city. A soap opera should reflect that.
Desmond was popular in the 80s/90s but what is the modern day equivalent? The star of the show, Desmond Beaton (RIP) sadly passed away 13 years ago, and that was the end of a good series. The only other programme with a black cast was way back in the 80s called ‘No Problem’. This focused on 5 black brothers and sisters living in North West London, it wasn’t brilliant but still entertaining in its own way, and it was nice to see ourselves being represented on screen even if not every black person could relate to the characters.
Today I don’t think there are any UK programmes showing a complete cast of black actors. The BBC tried with ‘The Crouches’ in 2005 but this was abysmal and full of stereotypical black characters, and ended after just two series. Way before this we had ‘Brothers and Sisters’ based on a black community/church in North London (also very bad and eventually axed).
Why is there nothing like Eastenders or Hollyoaks which focuses on typical black families/friends? I have to switch to Sky to catch a glimpse of black actors in heavily dubbed, soaps with awful scripts and wooden acting. High calibre actors such as Rudolph Walker, Adrian Lester, David Harewood, Marianne Jean-Baptiste, Nina Baden-Semper, Trevor Etienne, Kwame Kwei-Armah, Paul J Medford, Dona Croll, Carmen Munroe are few and far between. I’m sorry but I just want to see great black actors on TV being offered credible storylines, speaking and acting in a natural way and delivering their craft. I have no desire to hear a natural Caribbean or African accent on screen that sounds contrived.
Quite frankly, on a personal note, I am also sick and tired of the GENERALISED AND SWEEPING assumption that negative incidents have clouded my judgement towards this discussion. It’s quite patronising to claim that a person must have had bad experiences if they are expressing themselves vocally. I\’m sure that some us of have beliefs that we have a great passion for? A person of colour can actually pass strong comments and have an opinion based on what they know, recognise and are familiar with without having to go through the ‘oh poor you, which English person has hurt you’ kind of thing.
As a black woman yes of course I have encountered racism but I don’t need facts and figures to prove that racism exists, its visible most of the time. If you’re interested you might want to take a look at the following links re lack of black actors/poor characterisation:
African Queen, this is what I said: "As for EastEnders, most of the accents have to be \’London\’ accents because that\’s where it\’s set. Just as in Coronation Street, most of the accents have to suggest Lancashire. Or Liverpudlian for Brookside (those were the days!) Doesn\’t mean that there can\’t be other accents – of course there can. People move around and migrate etc."
And this is what you said in response: "You also said that characters in a show have to reflect the filming location – not strictly true – if I’m not mistaken the character who plays ‘Dawn’s’ boyfriend has a Lancashire/Mancunian accent. Just because a show is filmed in a certain area does it mean that other nationalities/dialects are excluded?"
Do you see what you did there? You\’re not even reading and listening PROPERLY to what other people have to say. It\’s just you, you, you – very sad. This is what I mean about raving as opposed to rational. And when you say this: "I have no desire to hear a natural Caribbean or African accent on screen that sounds contrived." That\’s the great irony because the soap editor objected to Yolande on that basis and you slated her for it!!!! I rest my case.
Zebedee I know what you said so please don\’t talk down to me. You really do need to mind how you talk to people. Admittedly I did miss your point you raised re the migration /different accents which is valid, but please keep your personal grievances out because I am not self-opinionated, far from it. Most of the things I have spoken about (and been shot down in burning flames for) have been in defence of black people as a whole in terms of accents, storylines and characterisations on Eastenders and TV. In response to my comment re contrived – do you know the meaning of this word? It means artificial, manufactured. The Soap Editor did not slate the character on that basis – she used the word \’grating\’ which means irritating – I spoke out against this because I explained (20 times) that the reason why Caribbean or African accents might sound fake on screen is because black actors water down their natural dialect because they don\’t want to alienate their audience. I can testify to this because I know black actors/actresses who have confessed to this and often uses this method as opposed to speaking in their natural accent. Its a shame that a black person has to disguise their natural tone – this was my angle. As a black woman (yes its all about me again), I\’ll say it again – I have no desire to hear a fake African or Caribbean accent, just the same way for instance a Scottish person might not feel too impressed to hear a fellow Scot murdering a Scottish accent (sorry I have no facts for you on the number of Scottish people who have stated this but there you go).
On a final note, its very offensive for you to keep referring to me as \’raving\’, you are the sad one attacking me personally on the basis of my comments. If you disagree with somebody\’s opinion then why not just raise that point in an adult way instead of finding other personal things to throw at them. Did you see what you did there or are you just annoyed that somebody is challenging your authority. I stand by my original point. There is nothing that you can say that will change that, no matter how many times you want to label me a raving lunatic.
This is for the benefit of future commentators:
As I am of the opinion that the originating article is not \’racist\’, I will no longer tolerate this accusation against the Soap Blogger. Future comments along this line will be deleted as they are defamatory. Please feel free to express your opinion, but accusing the blogger of being a \’racist\’ is a no-no.